On the subject of robes

[moonlite_tryst]

I'm suffering from work avoidance, so humour me.

A robe is a robe is a robe - or is it? This is the kind of question that rattles around one's head in the wee hours when one should be catching up on paper work or better still, asleep.

The Oxford English dictionary defines a robe as:

A loose-fitting outer garment of various types, often worn on formal or ceremonial occasions, as an indication of the wearer's rank, office or proffesion.

A bath robe or dressing gowns, for warmth and comfort.

Notice the term robe, as in one robe, one item of clothing worn by one person. So why in the wizarding world does one person wear robes? Example:

Dumbledore, when he arrived in Privet Drive, was wearing long robes, a purple cloak that swept the ground, and high-heeled, buckled boots (PS1)

Rita Skeeter wears acid green robes, against which her Quick-Quotes Quill blends perfectly (GF20) (source - The Lexicon)

I understand the term robes when referring to more than one robe:

during one summer sale (at Madame Malkins), they sold robes which were spangled, self-ironing, beautifying, slimming, fattening, lengthening, temperature-adjusting, and plain, with a free frog-skin belt with every purchase.

Authors also perceive the robe in different ways:

Harry grabbed his robes from the chair

Draco hitched Harry's robes up around his waist to reach his erect cock

Harry had nothing on under his robes


To me a robe is an outer garment, like a coat, but not as thick, knee or calf length and made of a variety of materials depending on the use or occasion. Trousers of some description would be worn underneath, again depending on use or occasion.

So, the big question is - how do you perceive the robe? Or is it a general term for clothing that you can't imagine?

Thoughts anyone?

Comments

[anodein82.livejournal.com]

I think that in muggle society one robe is acceptable.... while, in the wizard world there are layers to their robes. You have your undergarments(or lack there of) your trousers/skirts and shirts/blouses then the first layer of robes. of course the full ensemble being Robes.... yeah something like that.

[noneedofcrepe.livejournal.com]

I completely agree with you on that. That's how I would have described them too. The whole ensemble being Robes. Perfect.

[anodein82.livejournal.com]

thank you. *grins* in my stories that's how I tend to explain it.

[moonlite-tryst.livejournal.com]

You have your undergarments(or lack there of) your trousers/skirts and shirts/blouses then the first layer of robes.

I understand what you mean. I just wouldn't think to call the whole ensemble Robes.

[moonlite-tryst.livejournal.com]

That makes sense, although my brain automatically supplies the image of several robes whenever I read the word. I shall have to pay closerattention to what JKR says in the books.

[anodein82.livejournal.com]

I hope she'll explain it inthe encyclopedia she's going to write after book 7 is out. It's supposed to explain all the little stuff that she leaves out of the books

[moonlite-tryst.livejournal.com]

That and make her a few more million. Sorry, I've got my cynical head on at the moment. A reference to Robes would be useful though.

[yodels.livejournal.com]

It's a general term for something that I can't quite imagine, thus in my fics they are generally dressed in muggle garb. And, I really can't imagine not wearing anything under such loosely-fitting things. *shudders at the thought*

I always seem to think of graduation gowns and somehow that's probably not quite right.

I dunno. Sorry, not helpful here.

[moonlite-tryst.livejournal.com]

I just wondered how different people perceived the robe. I tend to use Muggle clothing too. I cannot imagine someone who has grown up with trousers wanting to walk around in something that resembles a long dress with no under garments - even if it makes Draco's job easier.

[coffeejunkii.livejournal.com]

i tend to picture robes the way they are depicted in the movies. in my stories, the characters usually aren't in robes, but in muggle clothes.

Draco hitched Harry's robes up around his waist to reach his erect cock

you know, as long as draco is doing that, i don't much care what harry's robes look like ;).

[moonlite-tryst.livejournal.com]

You saucy minx! The films have influenced my view of them, so I always think of robes as an over garment. I do wish the films had made Dumbledore's clothes as bright as the illustration on the back of book 1

[furiosity.livejournal.com]

If you're talking about the Harry Potter canon, I did a reference to canon clothing (http://furiosity.livejournal.com/80224.html) a long time ago. Which I really need to update with HBP info, since HBP throws a wrench in the works of "nothing under robes" since the Slytherins (Draco, Blaise, Crabbe, Goyle and Pansy) all change into their robes in the same compartment (whereas in PS, Ron asks Hermione to leave so they'll change). So to answer your question, I perceive the "canon" robes as they are described in canon (found under the "Robes" heading in the link I gave).

[moonlite-tryst.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the link. Prior to HBP, the evidence you have cited does suggest one or more items of clothing pulled over the head and worn loosely, probably down to the ankles. I wonder how Muggle born boys feel about wearing such clothes?

[misspadfoot.livejournal.com]

For me, they are some sort of combination of overcoat, cloak, and a long drapey priest-style garment. They can have pants on underneath or not - I always figure the people who are closer to or fonder of muggle culture would be more likely to wear pants underneath, but I suppose I can see Lucius Malfoy getting himself some nice black Armani dress pants to go under his fancy-ass robes.

Also, I figured the Hogwarts robes to be closer to a very long overcoat - they can wear regular clothes or school uniforms under them and have them visible.

[moonlite-tryst.livejournal.com]

Your idea about the school clothes mayches mine. As for the adults, I tend to think that there would be some sort of leg covering, even if it's something like mediaeval leggings, under the robes.

[godlessharlot.livejournal.com]

I always picture them the way Rowling drew them, so sort of like a monk's habit without the cowl.

[moonlite-tryst.livejournal.com]

I just can't imagine Lucius without trousers of some kind under his robe.

[godlessharlot.livejournal.com]

I can, and often do... But that's movieverse!Malfoy and not at all to the point. ;)

I do imagine that, especially in winter, they'd have to wear some sort of long underpants. Not trousers, though, but that's just me.

[fazkleto.livejournal.com]

Here via daily_snitch.
With robes, I always thought JKR meant layers of dress-like clothes, off the top of my head I'd compare them to something a cardinal or a nun might wear. I think with some characters there's a lot of layers, and others maybe just an open robe over a dress or trousers, depending on how 'traditional' they are. I remember in GoF one of the wizards got muggle-clothing confused and came out wearing a dress because he liked the fresh air round his bits, which really clinched the idea for me that wizards basically run around in dress-like clothing, and in Snape's worst memory, all James/Sirius have to do is turn him upside down and everyone can see his undies.

[moonlite-tryst.livejournal.com]

I suppose those wizards with Muggle heritage might retain some form of Muggle dress under their robes. I agree with you that the robes could differ depending on station in life, office, occasion and attitude toward traditional garb.

[snorkackcatcher]

I presume it's just a quirk of English that sometimes single garments get a plural name (perhaps when they perform a function that was once performed by muliple garments?) -- in the same way that the word 'pants' refers to a single garment (in either UK or US usage, just a different garment!) or indeed 'jeans', 'tights', 'trousers' etc.

[moonlite-tryst.livejournal.com]

I'd never really given it much thought before, but with tights, trousers and jeans I'd assumed it's becasue they have two legs, hence the pluralisation.

[ellid.livejournal.com]

Either a floor-length tunic of some sort, or, for teachers and students, an academic robe.

[moonlite-tryst.livejournal.com]

I see dress robes as floor-length, but for someone like an Auror I would mentally picture them in something that was three-quarters in length.

[labyrinthlace.livejournal.com]

I sort of see the robes as a bit of a greatcoat type thing only for indoors. My assumption is that the older and the pureblooded Wizards/Witches wear robes with merely underwear under them and that the younger and half/blooded or muggle-born Wizard Witches probably wear trousers and shirt or skirt and blouse or jeans and tee shirts under them.

So, I sort of see the robes as a combination of the old fashioned great coat which was a sort of caped cloak/coat worn over one's other garments to keep the rain etc off. Since we know w/w wear cloaks and capes over their clothing then the robes are intended for indoor wear.

ER, lost my thread there. combination of the great coat and a sort of loosely draped garment that goes over one's other clothes, probably available in both winter and summer weights just as different fabrics adn knitting yarns come in winter and summer weights.

[moonlite-tryst.livejournal.com]

Your thread made perfect sense to me, and is similar to my vision of all things robe. Whenever I think of dress robes though I always picture them in a military style with a high mandarin collar and well fitted to the waist, with some flaring after that, along with some form of braiding or embroidery.

[labyrinthlace.livejournal.com]

That makes sense really! Because dress robes sounds a bit...um, military.

I think that Harry's dress robes in GOF were a decent approximation of what I would have pictured, probably with a bit more in the way of layers but otherwise essentially. Or, possibly a kind of kimono like get up.

[moonlite-tryst.livejournal.com]

Or, possibly a kind of kimono like get up.

Now that sounds interesting. Of course imperial chinese clothes were equally stunning and could fit into the 'formal robe' catagory.

[queen-medb.livejournal.com]

I always figured JKR was picturing the old Oxbridge style robes when talking about the wizard robes. Back in the day students at unis had to wear their robes to class, now I think they only do so for certain dinners in their college halls. My info's fuzzy, but check the Oxford or Cambridge websites. *shrug* I may be totally off base, but I figured it would be some wizard version of the academic Muggle robes.

[moonlite-tryst.livejournal.com]

The only pictures I could see on the Oxford web site was of the cadwallader Clube dinner, and they all had tuxedo's on. I definitely see the robe as something to be worn over something else.

[moonlite-tryst.livejournal.com]

Bugger! That's Cadwallader Club.

[queen-medb.livejournal.com]

Yeah, they are meant to be worn over something... other unis still use them too but pretty rarely... I'll try and look later but I'm mad busy right now.

[mephisto5.livejournal.com]

We have to wear them for matriculation dinners, matriculation and graduation photographs and any time we eat in Formal Hall (as opposed to upper hall). Thankfully they are not regular day wear.

Just an aside, what we wear are called gowns, not robes. Robes are floor length or close to floor length like a monk's habit.

Well.... (Here via - was it DS?)

[wemyss.livejournal.com]

I presume that, at least as to Hogwarts robes, JKR means gowns (in the academic and barrister's sense). Some adult Wizards and Witches may wear robes similar to monastic gowns or to togas and chitons (that chap at the World Cup, say), but that's different to the academic gowns that go over school uniform or, in the case of masters, if they like, over, say, tweeds.

As to the issue of 'robes' appearing to be a plural formation, I can only note that this builds rather too much on a simple quirk of the English tongue. Peers, the Great Officers of State, and HM, at State Openings and so on, and judges in court, are referred to as wearing 'robeS' (judicial or 'robes of state'), but, obviously, are in fact wearing ceremonial overgarments of the 'gown' sort.

Re: Well.... (Here via - was it DS?)

[moonlite-tryst.livejournal.com]

I did watch the World Cup, but didn't spot anyone wearing a chiton. Who was it? My mind definitely leans more toward the academic and barrister's style of robes rather than a full length outfit that will allow it's wearer to forgo some form of trouser, even underwear if they chose to.

[flamewarrior.livejournal.com]

Ceremonial magicians and some Muggle witches wear nothing under their robes, and I rather hope Wizards do likewise :-)

[moonlite-tryst.livejournal.com]

You sauce pot! Maybe a rallying cry could be "Open your knees and feel the breeze." :)

Off-topic, but...

[klose.livejournal.com]

I came here via DS, and I am just *mesmerized* by your layout. *stares*
If you don't mind me asking - and I feel bad making a random comment like this, I couldn't find any information about it on your userinfo or anything - who are those pretty boys? And have 'Harry''s glasses been manipulated on? Cos' that's pretty darn cool. *goggles*

Re: Off-topic, but...

[moonlite-tryst.livejournal.com]

My friend sesptwd made the layout for me as a birthday surprise - she has the photoshop skills I woefully lack. Harry is 'played' by English actor Hugh Dancy and Draco by American model Boyd Holbrook. Harry's glasses were added later.