Still on about that video

[moonlite_tryst]

After watching the lovely lads *points to icon* engaging in more intimate activities in this video, several of you have mentioned that fucking bareback is not a safe practice which got me thinking about how I write sex scenes.

I have never had Harry or Draco use a condom; I always rely on the good old protection spell. But, assuming wizards in the HP verse used such a thing, would a spell actually be able to protect against a sexually transmitted disease? And if it could, then wouldn't magic protect against all disease?

Are we, the writers that let the lads engage in bareback sex, even if it is fiction, being irresponsible to our readers? Should we be promoting safe sex and the use of condoms in both slash and het fic, especially the one night stands and rent boy/girl fics?

Comments

[oldenuf2nb.livejournal.com]

Perhaps we should. I have never written in condom use, but it's a thought. I am a big proponent of safe sex with my kids; it's the first conversation we ever had about sex. My thought on the magical transmission of STD's is that even if a protection spell could prevent you from acquiring an STD, much the way a condom does with us Muggles, that spell would no more be able to prevent cancer in a Wizard than a condom does in us. Just my way of thinking. I think there would still be things that even magic could not necessarily prevent. Just my thoughts....

[moonlite-tryst.livejournal.com]

I've never experienced sex with a condom, so using one never enters my thinking. In my mind, a protection spell/charm creates some sort of barrier within the anus/vagina that an STD cannot penetrate. I've never actually given it much thought, I just type away.

[furiosity.livejournal.com]

Should we be promoting safe sex and the use of condoms in both slash and het fic, especially the one night stands and rent boy/girl fics?
While we're at it, should we also address the issues of racism, sexism, homophobia, ageism, disable-ism, anti-semitism, etc etc? Perhaps we might also have the characters floss regularly, eat balanced diets, eschew soft drinks and excess alcohol, and do Pilates. Also, in every story that features motor vehicles? Seat belts should be treated with special attention, because far more people die in car accidents each year than they do from STDs.

Oh my, what a slippery slope I've got there. >.>

I think that fiction writers -- particularly Harry Potter pornfic writers -- are not educators and thus not responsible to anyone for anything. I don't think it's possible to be "irresponsible" when you carry no responsibility in the first place.

[drgaellon]

OTOH, porn producers have no "responsibility" to their viewers either, but most porn producers today do NOT allow their actors to engage in penetrative anal sex without a condom. (I suppose one could argue that they DO have a responsibility to the actors...)

I suspect BoyBatter is an "amateur" site - those two boys were DEFINITELY fucking bare, and I don't know of any mainstream gay porn producer who allows that. (Unless it's being produced by a really small studio off the radar...)

[moonlite-tryst.livejournal.com]

That's definitely some slope you have there.

the characters floss regularly, eat balanced diets, eschew soft drinks and excess alcohol, and do Pilates

You mean they don't? *grins*

I can honestly say that it never occurs to me to write in condom use because a) the characters and situations are not real, b) the universe is magical so the good old protection spell takes care of any nasties when I include one.

[the-gentleman.livejournal.com]

I think the existence of St Mungo's suggests that diseases are known to wizards; on the other hand, I'm pretty sure there are prophylactic spells. Shield charms, etc. I don't usually write condoms etc in for HP fic, but I would for other fandoms- if only because I find condom play pretty hot. Lots of metaphors and symbolism in it, an explicit sexual image.

[moonlite-tryst.livejournal.com]

Shield charms, etc

That's how I'd expect a protection spell to work: as a barrier rather than a spell that AK's the pesky microbes.

Lots of metaphors and symbolism in it, an explicit sexual image

Sorry for the TMI, but I am completely lacking in experience in this field, so I'm having a hard time imagining anythng that comes close.

[graylor.livejournal.com]

Maybe we should--but, then again, even now some fics are about "consequences". I don't recall any STD stories which weren't crack!fic--but aren't many of the pregnancy themed stories (het and m-preg) be about dealing wih unplanned pregnancies? It's not my favorite genre, but from what I've seen there's almost always the obligatory "I'm/You're what?!!" scene.

It's somewhat off topic, but could the fondness for "first time" fics (whether virigns because of just awkward teenagers or Veelas who can only mate with their soul mate) be a subconscious reaction to the whole STD question?

It's a bit odd that I can only think of one serious fic which even mentioned STDS. (Samayel's Redeem Me)

[moonlite-tryst.livejournal.com]

there's almost always the obligatory "I'm/You're what?!!" scene

That scenario is certainly more popular than a planned pregnancies because of the tension it adds to the fic.

could the fondness for "first time" fics (whether virigns because of just awkward teenagers or Veelas who can only mate with their soul mate) be a subconscious reaction to the whole STD question?

That's certainly an interesting viewpoint. I almost want to add Discuss at the end and turn it into an essay question.

jamie2109 wrote a fic about Draco waiting to see if he'd got aids because a previous Muggle partner had died of the disease.

[coffeejunkii.livejournal.com]

i migrated from smallville into hp fandom. in sv, there was much condom usage by clark and lex in fic, and if there wasn't it bothered me quite a bit [i actually wrote a post on that a long time ago]. when i got into hp, i was very surprised that in most fic, harry and draco usually don't use any sort of protection against stds. i would really like to see some concern about this, mostly because it seems unrealistic that no stds exist in the wizarding world. i tend to sneak a little protection spell into getting-together fics but i drop them if it's an established relationship.

[midnitemaraud-r.livejournal.com]

Non-magical/fantasy fandoms are different, I think, from those that take place in "the real world" (or at least are supposed to, like Smallville. And to be honest, I can't see Clark contracting an STD :-P)

I suppose if I wrote het fic, I'd implement some kind of birth control - depending on which fandom. But in a universe where broken bones are regrown overnight, and a little Pepper-Up Potion can cure colds and flu... STD's feel like a Muggle thing, and condoms would definitely be a Muggle invention. Half of adult wizards can't even manage to dress like Muggles, so I can't see that they would even have an inkling about what a condom is. Yes, Muggles and Muggleborns are part of the wizarding world, but still.

Also, it depends on the era that you're writing in. Condoms didn't really come into use for STD protection as a widespread thing until the 80s when the AIDS epidemic really started to take hold, and Herpes became a household word. Gonorrhea, Chlamydia, and Syphilis were all curable with antibiotics.

I don't feel any obligation to portray safe sex in my HP stories. I just don't. If I was writing in a different fandom, like House or SPN, or even Doctor Who and Torchwood (or tennis RPS :-P) then that would be a different story. But in HP...it just doesn't ping on my radar.

[moonlite-tryst.livejournal.com]

i tend to sneak a little protection spell into getting-together fics but i drop them if it's an established relationship.

Oh, me too. I don't think I ever mentioned a protection spell in hd_365 because it was established relationship. Ru wrote a chapter of The Arrangement arc wherein Draco had a magical STD. I can't remember what it did exactly, but it was a nasty sucker. Draco had to take various potions and abstain from sex for so many weeks. Sound familiar?

[viridescence]

I do recall there being some discussion about this in HP verse (at least H/D verse) some time ago, though I don't think I could tell you exactly when. And I do recall that there were a few fics that specifically mentioned STDs/condom use, though, again, I can't remember exactly who. rurounihime? silentauror? I do know that I've read about condom usage or magical protective lube or protective spells quite a bit, though, so I don't think that fandom has completely neglected safe sex.

I think that the discussion of safe sex is important, but given that we're working in a magical universe, I don't think we're limited to condoms. I've not ever had Harry and Draco use condoms, myself, but I have (I think) used spells or protective lube in the past. I have also not considered the issue at all in some fics. I wonder if it's because we're working in a magical universe--it isn't hard to imagine that magic can heal any sort of disease. Perhaps that's naive or idyllic. But it's nice sometimes to not have that as a niggling worry in the back of the character's minds. I haven't written fic outside of the HP universe, but I do know that if I were writing in a universe where there are not magical solutions, I would make safe sex more of an issue.

I don't know that we're responsible to show safe sex in fanfiction. We authors are creating/modifying a universe where there isn't specific canon guidance for whether safe sex is a concern, and depending on the plot of a story, it may or may not matter. Should we disrupt the plot of a story to make a point about safe sex when it doesn't matter or is counter to what is developing in the plot? It also comes back to the fiction =/= reality issue, and that if someone who reads fanfiction where safe sex isn't even mentioned can't separate that from real life, where safe sex is a major issue, then that person shouldn't be reading fic to begin with, and there are larger issues at play than the responsibility of fanfic authors.

It's a bit of a dilemma, I suppose, and it's definitely worth talking about. Perhaps including a push for safe sex in the disclaimer/author's note would work when the issue doesn't come up in the fic.

[moonlite-tryst.livejournal.com]

Both rurounihime and jamie2109 have written fics that deal with STDs.

I've not ever had Harry and Draco use condoms, myself, but I have (I think) used spells... in the past

Me too. Although if it's established relationship, I don't bother. Being a magical world, I think many of us adopt an anything is possible attitude because magic, by it's very nature, is out of the realms of our experiences.

[romaine24.livejournal.com]

Sameyal's latest story Big Chicago talks about the STDs and so does Weasleywenches The Dragon's Tail, both found on the Hex.

I'm not sure if it's conincidence or not but they are both AU (no magic) stories.

[moonlite-tryst.livejournal.com]

Both rurounihime and jamie2109 have written non-AUs which feature STDs.

[nissaba.livejournal.com]

I don't believe we have a responsibility to write safe sex, but I believe it is a good idea.

When I first started writing erotica 5 or so years ago(non fandom het stuff, oh how we change) my little sister was under 18 and I felt it was important to make a mention of safe sex in my stories. It has never bothered me to read about using condoms unless the author does a bad job of it. Truth be told, if the writing is good and the safe sex flows well it should be fine. The fics that turn people off to it are the ones where it is the middle of a sex scene and then, "Suddenly Harry pulled back and rolled a condom over his penis." When it is abrupt and bald like that it can distract.

As for spells, I don't really think they could prevent disease, unless you are talking a full barrier being cast around the cock, maybe, but its fantasy. I think that if you mention it most people are going to accept it and it still promotes safe sex.

I did read a story one time where Draco gets an STD and finds out he passed it to Harry. I like that touch of realism sometimes.

[moonlite-tryst.livejournal.com]

I did read a story one time where Draco gets an STD and finds out he passed it to Harry

I've read 1 where Draco was waiting to hear the results of an aids test after a previous patner died if the disease, and another where Draco had an STD, but Harry was clear.

Poor Draco. We seem to have it in for him.

[earth-magic.livejournal.com]

I did smile when I read one of the comments about bareback - not a term I was familier with *laughs*

I mentioned something in "Choices" about Draco having a potion that protected him because people paid more for unprotected sex. But in other stories I just haven't bothered. I guess I write them more in exclusive relationships.

But would I would to read about condoms? Not particularly. But if it's there I'd rather have it as part of sex play rather than it being seen as promoting safe sex. If I want that I'll read a text book.

[moonlite-tryst.livejournal.com]

But if it's there I'd rather have it as part of sex play rather than it being seen as promoting safe sex

I wasn't thinking of one character lecturing another, i.e. "Aren't you going to use a condom, Draco? You know... just in case."

I was wondering if it could be as natural as kiss, lick nipples, blowjob, pop on the condom, fuck.

I don't use them in my fics either. Although I'm now tempted to write a little piece in which Harry introduces Draco to the diferent ways of puttng one on.

[ravenpan.livejournal.com]

Okay, blitzing through here - haven't read the other comments, so I may end up re-saying things, but here's how I see it.

I've always used protection spells, and lots of time have even let them bareback without them - for the sake of story. in my brain I guess there's a glitch that says "they do the spells every month, they last, there's a barrier and it goes away with the next poo" or something. I know that makes no sense, but that's just me. fictionsex isn't usually realistic (otherwise there'd be poo on the end every time you're done having sex! unless they're big fans of enemas) can you tell I'm sort of trying to work out my train of thought while I'm typing here?

I'm guessing it's not entirely irresponsibility - because it's fiction, and we aren't in `charge of what people do - otherwise we'd be dragged into court for every case of beating or perhaps a massacre or what have you - because we wrote about it, obviously we were promoting it! The simple fact you didn't know there was a term for it, is enough proof of that.

I don't know if I've ever written condom!sex... because I've never used one - it's only ever really been me and my Mate - and our one attempt to figure it out was met with laughing, tossing it aside, and saying a quick "dear god, no baby this time, got stuff to do later this year that requires being not!pregnant" - but If I did get pregnant, then yay. Which is another story altogether.

RIGHT I'm rambling. Short version - I don't think it's irresponsible in wizard!fic - protection spells are great whether or not they're used - but IRL should use a condom for anal sex, if not for possible std's, to save the prick from getting sick due to being in contact with things it's not meant to be. (intestinal flora, poo, etc)

I need to wake up *headdesk*

[ravenpan.livejournal.com]

addendum: I've often had the thought that magical diseases are usually different from muggle ones - kind of how if they caught a muggle one it'd effect them worse becuase they wouldn't have the immunities. Think white people first coming to the americas and wiping out half The People because they'd never encountered it before.

I'd think perhaps purebloods would have a similar reaction to muggle diseases, or muggles to wizard ones - purely a cultural thing. (did that make any sense?)

[libby-drew.livejournal.com]

Wow! I stopped by to ask you a question, and I got completely sucked in by this post. I can't believe I missed it because this is something I've give quite a lot of thought. Great discussion!

But there is another reason for my visit. :D I have some questions, specifically pertaining to the UK. Since it's for an exchange fic, I can't ask the general public. I was wondering if you'd indulge my curiosity on a couple of things, if you have the time. If you don't, I understand.

I can email you or vice versa. I'm libbydrew@yahoo.com

Thanks, hon!

[moonlite-tryst.livejournal.com]

Thanks. I'm thinking on doing a humerous one shot wherein Harry intorduces Draco to the many pleasures of condom play. It would help if I know what they were. Cue another post.

I've sent you a mail.